BERNIE TORME Interview. (Urge, Scrapyard, Gillan, Ozzy, A.Rooster, Electric Gyspies-Torme, Desperado, Silver, GMT).

I saw Bernie Torme performing live last year at Calella Rock Fest. Great Rock n Roll concert and vibe. Here’s an interesting interview that Bernie give to HUSH Magazine and Púrpura Chess talking about his new cd and his entire musical career. The talk bring us lots of memories and interesting opinions from Bernie solo music and his Gillan, Ozzy, Atomic Rooster, Desperado, Silver and GMT days.

This is an advance. The full interview will be included into the next HUSH Magazine number.

-What´s your first musical memory.

Well I'm pretty OLD! So when I was 2 (I was born in march 52), I was obsessed by a song that was hit shortly before in '53 called "Walkin' to Missouri" by a guy called Tony Brent, it was about a robin, a bird, that had to walk home to Missouri because he couldn't afford to fly. I thought this was the saddest thing ever, my family used to call me to the radio every time it was played and I would cry, and they thought this was sweet and they would laugh lovingly about me crying. Even though I could only just talk I even asked my Dad to drive around Dublin to look for the little robin and give him a lift in his car! I loved birds and animals when I was little, still do. Silly as this story is it really got through to me at a young age how emotionally powerful music can be, and that remains with me.

I first became aware of Rock n Roll in about 55 or 56 when I was 3 or 4, at my aunty Daisy's house, her kids used to have parties, they were teenagers at that time, played Elvis, Little Richard, all that. It made a big impression, I thought it was the coolest thing ever! Loved it.

 

                                                                  Tony Brent: "Walkin' to Missouri"

-What kind of music has influenced in your musical knowledge and interest in music?

Everything really. Music in those days was hard to get to hear. So when I heard Beethoven's 5th I was completely blown away by that. I loved Duane Eddy too, all that twangy guitar stuff, Elvis, Chuck Berry, Johnny Cash, and when I heard the Beatles that was wild. Stones, Who, Jeff Beck with the Yardbirds and Keith Richards with the Stones were probably the first distorted guitar sounds I ever heard, that just captivated me! I wanted to do that! Clapton with the Bluesbreakers was a crucial point for all guitar players of my generation, Clapton translated the electric blues of Freddy King for all of us, we'd never heard any like that. And a timeless sound. And then when I was a bit older, most importantly in 67 Hendrix of course, who was just completely mind-blowing at the time, like an avatar from another galaxy, but who always did it with a sense of humour, like it was FUN! Neither Beck nor Clapton did that, they were very english and very serious. Irish folk music had a big renaissance too in the '60's, The Chieftains, Planxty, that made a big impression melodically and harmonically. And the psychedelic folky stuff like the Incredible String Band. Bob Dylan was a huge huge influence, and again the evolution of the Beatles into the Strawberry Fields period. All of the Rock stuff that happened in Ireland was hugely influential on me too, Rory Gallagher and Taste, Thin Lizzy with Eric Bell, Gary Moore with Skid Row and many other great Irish guitar players, Ed Deane, Jody Pollard, I watched them all and listened and stole religiously! I really loved all of the music, classical stuff too. I just happened to play guitar because it was the instrument that spoke to me most.

-You’re guitar player and singer (I think your voice’s got feeling and it´s very personal). Do you play any other instrument?

Thanks for that! I learnt piano from the dots on the page, but thats mostly forgotten by now! Like a lot of other things! Harmonica I play pretty badly, and being Irish a bit of tin whistle and flutes too. Badly!

 

 

THE BERNIE TORME BAND.

-I’ve read that you played with the band The Urge in Dublin. What kind of music did you play?

All sorts! Rock, Blues, Soul, Prog. King Crimson 'Court of the Crimson King', Soul tracks, Joe Cocker and Stax, Deep Purple's 'Fools' and 'Into the Fire', Tull's 'Bouree' (we had two flute players), Blues tracks, 'Rock Me Baby' etc. It was a great band to learn broader styles in. This was in 70-71, way before Punk happened, I've seen people in magazines saying The Urge was a Punk band, totally untrue. Like most Rock style bands in those days we were still basically a Dance band, this was before disco really happened, so music had to be dance music for it to work.  We mixed the more proggy suff in with that. But again I still have that attitude to stuff I play, it is basically mostly Dance music. 

  

 

-In Scrapyard you played with John McCoy. How did you get to be into Scrapyard and how was the first meeting with John?

Scrapyard was my band. I formed it. I was not having too much luck joining any other good bands, they all thought I played too loud! So I formed Scrapyard with a guy called Bernie Hagley on bass and Roger Hunt on drums. Our bass player, Bernie Hagley, left, we got a stand in, but we needed a permanent bass player so we advertised in the Melody Maker. John turned up to the auditions wearing a table cloth with a hole for his head, and a pair of shorts! He had hair in those days, long curly hair!

He turned up at the auditions at the drummer Roger Hunt's house: we had put 'good image essential' in the ad, and this fat nutter rolled up looking like Demis Roussos in a table cloth. Roger the drummer saw him out the window and wouldn't answer the door, he wanted me to, and he wanted me to tell him to fuck off because he looked so ridiculous!

I couldn't bring myself to say that, so I was stammering and stuttering away, and McCoy, who was out of his brains anyway, just started giggling and fell over and rolled around. So then he said 'Man, I'm the bass player'. We didn't even know which one he was!  He came in, we tried him, he was great, but when he left, the drummer and I had a big argument, I wanted John because he was a great player, solid as a rock, Roger wanted some other guy who looked very 'RAWK' but who was honestly not a good player.  It was my band, so I won.

A few months later McCoy and the drummer sacked me because I wouldn't change the name of the band to McCoy! Go figure! So they then got Paul Samson in, and the name of the band changed to Samson! That was the first Samson, my band Scrapyard!  They then sacked Roger the drummer and brought in Clive Burr and later Thunderstick after Clive joined Maiden; John joined Gillan, and then Chris Aylmer and Bruce Dickinson joined, and that was Samson.

-Later you formed your solo proyect, The Bernie Torme Band. The band recorded some singles: “The Hunters”, “I’m not ready”, “Weekend”. What are your feelings about those recordings? Didn’t you think about recording a full disc?

At the time I thought they were the best thing ever! Not so much “Weekend”, but the other two.  “Weekend” I didn't like the song much, I preferred “Secret Service” off that EP. “The Hunter” was actually a demo, recorded in a few hours at Konk, the Kinks studio. Not a proper release, just an attempt to get gigs really. In those days you had no say in how it sounded or how it was mixed, you just were given it at the end said “thank you” and paid up! I hated the guitar sound on “Weekend”. But “I'm Not Ready” was pretty representative, as was the “Hunter”.

We did record an album after we signed to Jet Records, but it was never released. Some of the out takes are on “Punk Or What”. The reason we never recorded more earlier was purely financial, studios were very expensive places in those days, you had to have someone to pay! We didn't have a penny.

 

-How were the Bernie Torme Band shows? Did you play covers as well?

The shows were pretty good, a lot of fun, but the punks did not like me playing guitar solos! That wasn't allowed! We did do a few covers, initially “Rip This Joint” by the Stones, “I Heard It Through The Grapevine” by Marvin Gaye (all punked up, that was a stand-out track) and “Anyway Anyhow Anywhere” and sometimes also “Kids Are Alright” by the Who. Some Small Faces too, “Shalalalalee”.

 

GILLAN.      

-How did you get into Gillan the band?  Did John McCoy introduce you to Ian?

I met John again after him stealing my band Scrapyard, we patched things up till the next bust up, he told me he was playing with Ian. He offered me (the BT Band) some supports, Colchester and Aberystwyth, University gigs. So we did them, one of them Steve Byrd, Ian's guitarist at the time was having a problem with his sound at the soundcheck, he spent ages messing around and widdling around on guitar on his own onstage. When he finally finished my roadie said to me 'go up there and show them what you can do', so I did. Did all of the trem arm and feedback stuff I always did, and thought no more about it. never spoke to Ian, I was too scared to! He was a big hero of mine. So about a week later he phoned me and asked me to join. I could not believe it.

-When you came to Gillan the band re-recorded what would be “Mr Universe” album. The next disc was “Glory Road”. Many people think that this is the best Gillan album. What do you think about this?

I personally prefer “Mr Universe” because it was a better experience for the band at the time, and I thought the material was really good, maybe better than later.  When I wrote “Unchain your Brain” for “Glory Road” it started out as a “Secret of the Dance” replacement track for live gigs, I always felt it was derivative and maybe not as original. I still prefer “Secret” though that was no doubt pretty derivative of “Fireball”, so maybe I shouldn't have worried!

This was the album that I started having a lot of writing credits on. Writing with Gillan at that time was very political, when I joined on “Mr Universe” it was all Colin, and he did a great job, great writer. When I joined I was presented with a situation by McCoy who said to me that Colin would not allow anyone else to write for the band, and because of that me and McCoy should stick together. In retrospect this was not at all true of course, Colin wrote songs, John wrote bass riffs, not songs! That was why none of John's input was used up to that time, he just did not write songs at the time, only bass riffs. So with me and McCoy together I wrote the songs and he wrote the bass riffs. This probably wasn't that clever on my part, but some good tracks came out of it, and I didn't have a problem with it so long as it was really good bass riffs! And it was.

Ian didn't like singing Colin's melodies and especially his lyrics too much, more of a financial split issue than anything artistic I think, Colin's songs were always great in my opinion. So with me and McCoy and our tracks, I would give Ian some ideas, melodic and even sometimes lyrical, but really mostly leave him up to his own devices, which he preferred: he usually just used whatever melody the guitar played, like the chorus on “If You Believe Me” or on “Are You Sure”. I wasn't too crazy about that at the time, but in retrospect it worked. And you can't ask for more than that.

 

-Next year you recorded “Future Shock”, with beautiful and powerful songs. I’d like to ask you about “If I sing softly” and “Mutually Assured Destruction” (Released as single, not in the album). What’s your opinion about these two songs? And about the full album?

I loved “If I Sing Softly”, I was very proud of that and I thought Ian did an absolutely brilliant job on it. “Mutually Assured” too, I was really proud of that and the harmonic changes in it from the minor verse to the major chorus, and again Ian did a great job on that. “Mutually Assured” was a nightmare live, and we had to play it live, the 12 string bit really did not work live on a slightly out of tune strat! Not too keen on the whole album for the above personal reasons, my memory is of recording it, it’s difficult to listen to it objectively for me, I'd rather listen to something else!

                                                                   Gillan: "If i sing softly"

-With these three albums (“Mr Universe”, “Glory road” and “Future Shock”) Gillan the band was at the top of the charts in UK. You played many shows but, unfortunately, didn´t come the massive success. Also it seems that Gillan the band wasn´t successfully enough in North America. You had got the songs, the music, the chemistry and the attitude, what did you think that happened for not get this massive success?

No management. Ian appeared to have a problem about that manager/artiste relationship. Both Rainbow and Whitesnake had powerful old school style management, but when I joined Gillan the band basically managed itself: that was ok, and it meant that we evolved in a different more chaotic and far more individualistic way, but it also meant that we were not really able to make the jump past being big in the UK, or to get a major record deal. There was no one with their finger on any business pulse, or with any strategy, it was basically a case of stagger from one state of chaos to the next. Ian did not want anyone to tell him what to do, he wanted to do what he wanted to do, tour, do albums and have a party every night. He didn't want to support anyone, he wanted to headline clubs. There was no plan to make it bigger. He did not want that. But I am a bit like that too.

When he finally did get a manager( just before I left) it was our agent, Phil Banfield, who had no control at all over Ian, he was just there to do what Ian wanted. More slave than manager. He was also not experienced and had no thought of anything other than make the next few quid, a nice enough guy, but not impressive, and an agent, not a manager. 

-I know that you’ve answered this many times before, sorry for this. But we’re very interested in your own opinion and words about this. Please, would you tell the readers of HUSH and Púrpura Chess what happens with the Top of the Pops recording in 1981 and your departure from Gillan?

I was very unhappy following “Future Shock” that different people in the band were being paid different amounts. I really did not want to stay in a band that operated like that, I had no problem about Ian taking the lion's share, it was after all his band and his name, but I did have a big problem about McCoy getting more than everybody else and Ian letting that happen. It was for me an explosion waiting to happen, and no way to run a band. There was also a major problem in that we had all been personally promised a share by Ian and his business manager Ted Wood in early 79, which never was paid, and then a few months before I left in 81 they started denying that it had ever been promised, though all of us had been at the meeting. At that stage I really felt I no longer wanted to be part of Gillan, it just seemed to be an essentially dishonest situation.

The final straw for me came when we were on a European tour and we were offered Top Of The Pops: the musicians union used to pay a fee for each musician who appeared on TOTP, and it turned out that either the management or record company with Ian's collusion had been taking that money without even asking us. We were being treated like session musicians, but not being paid like session musicians. So I said that in the circumstances I wasn't going to do Top Of The Pops unless I was being paid my Musicians Union fee. McCoy wound me up about all that, not difficult to do in those days, and said he wouldn't do it either. I didn't, he did. And he mimed my guitar solo on Top Of The Pops.

I offered to complete the tour so as not to let fans down, Ian didn't want me to do that, so I left, and Ian claimed he sacked me because he didn't want me to complete the tour. Left? Sacked? Bit of both really, depends on your point of view. I was told that situation of not receiving the promised share carried on till the band broke up, so I was glad I left when I did, it was not a happy situation.

 

-I think that your work in Gillan the band was great and felt unhappy with your departure, this was negative for Gillan the band. Looking back, did you think that maybe you and Ian would be done something different?

Yes, I think that’s true, but you can't rewrite history, and either a band is a band or it is a bunch of session musicians being paid to back the star, that’s a clear difference. Gillan was run in a deliberately unclear and confusing way, you were promised a share in the profits so you did not expect the normal session players payments, which are pretty generous, but you never got a share of anything. Of course it could have been different, but it was not designed or run to last. It was only a matter of time until Ian went back to Purple. We all knew it.

                                                                                  

-Any chance to reform Gillan the band, (with or without Ian) for a concert or a recording?

I'd be happy to do it for maybe a few concerts, no album, no tour, but it would have to be with Ian for me, I know McCoy had a lot of schemes to do it with other singers, but I would not be interested in that. Basically as I understand it, Ian won't do it and Colin won't do it. Both essential, so it really is not going to happen. Even if Ian agreed Colin would not, and I would not do it without Colin. It won't happen, which is sad.

OZZY OSBOURNE.

-You played a few shows with Ozzy. What were your memories about those concerts?

Pure blind terror! Frantically trying to remember the songs and arrangements and what came next. Not being able to hear anything, worst sound on stage ever, all I could hear was Ozzy and Tommy Aldridge's snare. Couldn't hear any bass drum, any tom toms, any hi hat, any bass, any keys. First two gigs I couldn't even hear any guitar. Then one of the crew said Randy had had a stack at the side of the stage pointing at his left ear because he couldn't hear anything he played either. So I did the same thing, it was slightly better but still shit.

They gave me a cassette off the desk of Randy playing a show for me to learn from. There was an instrumental, that he wrote, and he was 2 bars ahead of the entire band all through. he couldn't hear them, just the snare, they couldn't hear him. Rubbish onstage sound. It really wasn't about music, it was a corporate music biz pantomime show with a soundtrack.

-It seems that Sharon didn´t allow beer or any kind of alcohol near Ozzy. UFO was in the tour and you´re irish. How did you deal with this Sharon´s rule?

Spent any time I could in UFO's dressing room, it was like the garden of earthly delights!

ATOMIC ROOSTER.

-You toured with Atomic Rooster and played in the album “Headline News”. Did you know Atomic Rooster members from before? Why did you play with them?

No I didn't, I had seen Rooster in Dublin in 69 or 70 and they were brilliant. Vincent Crane's parents turned up at my door in Richmond in West London and asked me to phone him. I still don't know how they found me! It was pretty mad, Vince was a mindblowingly great player, but more than slightly off the rails. I loved it.

-How was this experience for you?

It was a lot of fun, but Vince and Paul Hammond could be a bit out of control really, now that WAS a band that took the road of excess to its limits! They scared me a bit actually, but I loved the pair of them, its so sad they are no longer with us. When it was good it was spiritual magic, when they were out of it, mainly Paul, it was pathetically bad.

DESPERADO.

-“Bloodied but unbowed” is a great album, full of power, passion, guitar and melodies. How was the process to play in Desperado with Dee Snider?

Great, Dee's a great funny talented man. We didn't play though really, just rehearsed and recorded and did one gig. Drove me mad that.

-Great disc but, unfortunately, there were many problems with the company. Finally it was published by Dee but with any promotion. What happened with this album?

Its now out on Cleopatra in the US and Angel Air in Europe under its original title “ACE”. Still no promotion! But its good it's out.

- We can see some Desperado rehearsals in you tube. Did the band play any concert live on stage?

Only one in Birmingham in the UK, it was club, called the International I think, it was a showcase for Atlantic Records. It was good. We were offered a special guest spot on Motorhead's european tour, Dee wouldn't do it. Wish we had.

SILVER.

-Was Silver a “real” band or a Gary Barden project with friends? How were you involved with Silver?

No it wasn't really a band, it was a recording project put together by Michael Voss of Mad Max. I don't even know what Gary's involvement was, it was Michael's project. I basically just did all the lead guitar on the first album for session fees, second album I did about 2/3 of it, third album I did maybe 2 tracks. I liked the first album most, I thought the material on it was stronger.

-What do you think about the Silver kind of music?

I think the first album is excellent, Michael is a great producer and writer, but AOR is not really my thing, I prefer the grind and the dirt and the blood and the blues really, i am not into polished music personally. That does not mean I am saying its bad in any way at all, its just not what I like to listen to. But I did love doing the lead guitar on it. I heard a track at a dinner I went to a few years later and I did not recognise it, and heard the solo and thought 'wow, I like that, who is it?' And then I realised it was me! That made me feel really good!

BERNIE TORMÉ.

-Your first album was “Turn out the lights”. How was the composition process? Did you use any idea from Gillan the band or composed the songs after your Gillan’s departure?

No pretty much with the exception of  “Possession” all of the tracks were recorded before I left the band. Written around the same time as “Future Shock” mostly. “Possession” was written after I left the band, as a sort of a bitchy coda to the Gillan experience! The “Turn Out The Lights” riff itself was a reference to “No Laughing In Heaven”. Both inspired by “Tobacco Road”.

I really enjoyed doing it, it was letting off a bit of steam in the context of being a member of Gillan. Gillan was really one type of thing, and because there were other writers, mainly Colin, you couldn't get much stuff used. Colin did solo albums too to let off steam, both of us wrote a lot more than got used in Gillan.

                                                           Bernie Tormé: "Turn out the lights"

-The next was “Electric Gyspies”. With great songs like “Lightning Strikes”, “Wild West” or “Presences”. I think that these two albums are very important references in your musical career. You changed the members of the band. Were there any differences between these two albums and band concepts?

Well as I said “Turn Out The Lights” was never intended as a career building thing, just as a solo album while I was a member of Gillan. “Electric Gypsies” for me was far closer to what I really wanted to do, that type of heavy 3 piece Blues Rock, bit of Psychedelia too. “Turn Out The Lights” was a bit too light, a bit of a side road for me. “Electric Gypsies” was the main road.

-In the next album, “Back to Babylon”, you changed the named (simply Tormé) and recruited Phil Lewis (later known in LA Guns). Why did you choose Phil? What kind of sound were you looking for Tormé?

A lot of these choices were because of circumstance, Frank Noon left to join Pete Way's Waysted because I got tied in a contract situation with DJM and couldn't get out of the deal. So nothing happened for a year and Frank left. Then Ev left. It took me a while to get a new steady bass and drums, and by then I was on Cherry Red/Zebra Records, a real mistake, bunch of crooks. I knew Phil from earlier on, we had both been on Jet, when I was in the Gypsies every time I saw him he hassled me about joining the Gypsies as singer, I always told him to fuck off, that the band was a three piece!

So the record co was hassling me to get a singer, so I thought of Phil and asked him, he was a bit of a diva at first, but it worked out well. It was a very high energy band, not at all jammy, it was really just a lot of energy and very entertaining live. The Gypsies had been jam orientated, this definitely was not. Songs and energy, but less jam orientated than I would have liked, but a lot of fun, every gig was a party.

-A second album with this line up was published, “Die pretty Die young”. It seems that these songs were demos published when Phil Lewis wasn´t in the band. Could you tell the readers of HUSH Magazine what happened with Phil and that Tormé line up?

Well basically due to a publisher and record co who wanted to hang on to us because they were making a lot of money out of us when they were supposed to be trying to get us a major deal. They didn't even try. Phil got offered the LA Guns gig, he was a bit two faced about it and didn't tell me until he had accepted it, that pissed me off really, I'd just turned down a deal with Bronze Records because they wanted me to sack Phil! So he did ok, but the band fell apart after that. It didn't really work without Phil. It had a chemistry that was not replaceable.

-“Demolition Ball” was a heavy and rocker album. A different sound from the “Back to Babylon” days. What do you think about the final sound and production of this album?

It’s far too long! I like some tracks on it, but I think its a bit badly put together as an album really. Its difficult for me to hear it objectively, I kind of prefer the raggedy three piece thing. not my favourite, but I do like “Fallen angel” and “Spinning your wheels” and “Man of means” as songs. The whole album sounds a bit too LA wannabe to me now.

-In 1997 Bernie Tormé recorded “Wild Irish”, great album, again with the concept of trio line up. It contains many great songs with your Rock, Punk and Hendrix touch. Tunes like “Rat”, “Ghost Walking” or “River”. Were you looking for a “back to the roots” sound?

Yes, very much so. I did that whole album in the cellar of my house, no space and a complete nightmare for the neighbours because of the noise, but to me that album was like coming home, getting back to the roots as you said!

-The next was “White Trash Guitar”. This is one of my favourites. With very good songs like “Dark horizon”, “Healer” or “Chasing rainbow”. It includes a version of “Easy action” with Dee from Desperado and “Purple Haze” from Jimi Hendrix. What can you tell us about this album?

Yes again that was a continuation of the same philosophy, both it and “Wild Irish” were albums that I did at a very low level at my own speed and literally did almost everything. I didn't play drums! I think that was all, engineered, produced, played almost all the bass too, keys, the lot. Albums done with a Punk ethic, self reliance.

                                                              Bernie Tormé: "Dark Horizonts".

-You´ve recorded some live albums in your musical career, like “Live”, “Official Bootleg” or “Scorched Earth”. Very interesting recordings, always single albums. What do you think about the classic double live albums? Why didn´t you record any double live disc? Maybe in the future?

Yes maybe. In the past it was usually the situation that the tape ran out and we used whatever we had in terms of complete tracks. There always seemed to be at least 5 or 6 half tracks and that was half the set.

GMT.

Torme-McCoy-Guy. You´ve recorded “Bitter & Twisted”, “Evil Twin”, “Raw” and the single “Do you remember how to rock”. The music is strong and rough. What do you like to express with GMT music and what is the actual situation of GMT? 

Its very raw really, very few overdubs and grabs you by the throat. Loud.

GMT is on long term holiday, it became far too difficult, John had continual health issues at the time a few years ago and the amount of stress the pair of them were causing me I would have had bigger health issues! Impossible to run a band like that! I love them both, it was great fun but more than exhausting. No doubt we'll do it again sometime. Robin is playing with Sham 69, John is doing a lot of production stuff and playing with the Tyla Gang and I hear also doing his own McCoy project again.

NEW BERNIE TORMÉ ALBUM.

-Great news to hear you working in a new album. Could you tell the readers of HUSH and Púrpura Chess something about this cd?

Yes, I'm really excited about it, I've got a load of great new tracks, some really good stuff I think. I am doing it as a pledgemusic campaign where people get the album pre release and lots of other little extra's, and get involved all the way along, hearing bits of rough tracks, completely new way of doing it. Its pretty impossible to finance to be honest if I DON'T do that! I can't get the time otherwise. So I hope that works. But it will have lots of guitar, short tracks, long tracks, may even be a double album.

-You’ve got a bluesy touch in your discography. Will we hear this blues vibe in your new CD?

Absolutely, its basically going to be Blues Rock, touch of Psychedelia too. Back to the roots again!

-Many thanks for your availability, opinions, patience and understanding. Best wishes with your new album and projects.